Sunday, September 20, 2009

Picture perfect

The last post raised some questions, and I have been thinking about what you asked - whether I'd prefer monogamy with Mr.Hubby if it were an option.. SoI tried to imagine my fairy tale life so to I could give you an honest answer.

So here goes my picture perfect:

I’d be married to Mr.Hubby, and he’d be a ten year younger version of himself but absolutely with the same wisdoms, characteristics, personality (e.g. maturity level) which he has now.. I would have sisterwives which would truly be like sisters to me. I think I’d like to have two, and they’d be in about the same age range as I. We would be true friends and I’d love them as I love my own sister.

We’d all have kids, and none of the them would be older than four. Each one of the wives would take turns in running daycare for the kids. And once the kids would grow older we might chose to home school them.

We would live in adjacent homes, with a big communal living and kitchen so we could have our dinners together. We’d have two days with Mr.Hubby each, so everyone would be with him in the weekends eventually.

My day would look something like this: Getting the kids ready, if it were my turn to babysit, I would obviously be doing that until it were time to start preparing dinner. On other days I would start my day by going to the gym to keep everything nice and toned, then run errands, rest some (especially if it were my day with hubby so I would be refreshed when he came home), go to the salon to get properly waxed in all the necessary places, chat or meet with my sisterwives and other friends and family, prepare dinner, preferably together with another sisterwife.. I am still undecided whether I would like to cook, but I would definitely master the skill of making sweets and jummy cookies and all. So the kids would think I am such a cool mom and auntie and they’d sneak into my kitchen to steal something. I’d always pretend not to notice.
We would all have dinner together and it would be a big and messy but most importantly warm family. After dinner, the necessary cleaning and getting kids to bed, my evening would depend on whether Mr.Hubby were with me that day or not.

If it were my day:
With Mr.Hubby being away for some days, having him home again would make me look forward to it. I would make sure to take a short shower, and have the diligence to slip into something nice like a nightgown (instead of my shorts and stuff which I wear now). I would have rested during the day so there would be no tiredness bothering me..
I’d make it my personal objective to make Mr.Hubby loose himself fully and loudly under me.. I’d give him and myself the opportunity to rest for some hours after which I would ask him to kindly return the favor. After this there would be time to talk and reflect about whatever happened to be on our mind.

If it weren’t my day with him:
I would use the evenings for spiritual readings, contemplation, writing, painting, meeting with the sisterwife who was also by herself that day, in the weekends maybe arrange sleepovers for all the kids while me and the other sisterwife indulge in some delicious ice-cream all the while reassuring one another that we deserved it and that it wouldn’t ruin our thighs..

My family and friends would know about my lifestyle, and would learn to accept it. They would come over occasionally and sometimes my kids would go over to them and have sleepovers with their cousins.

I would feel safe and protected within my family unit, and we would be united by a bond of trust and love.


And I would maybe ask Mr.Hubby to make love to me a third time again..


Yeah. That’s my picture perfect.

And it really isn’t impossible to reach. I mean, I couldn’t have a Mr.Hubby be ten years younger, but let’s say I would be with a different man, spiritual and kind just as Mr.Hubby and two nice sisterwives. They are out there, I have met some of them..
Living this life, and then dying, would result in what? I mean, what would that mean for my spiritual development? Having nice sisterwives and a life which doesn’t confront me with anything within me, would result into what exactly?
I am no way near this perfection myself. I am not as perfect towards Mr.Hubby nor towards my sisterwives as I would want to be. My own pride and pettiness hold me down. So instead of expecting them to change to my liking I might better try and change myself. Their change may follow naturally..
So this is why I say gems are hidden in all the problems. They are opportunities for me to learn to be that better person, the one which trusts, loves, shows kindness, and generosity, and humility to others..


Natja's Natterings said...

>>Living this life, and then dying, would result in what? I mean, what would that mean for my spiritual development? Having nice sisterwives and a life which doesn’t confront me with anything within me, would result into what exactly?

Happiness? Contentment? Why is it that some people think that spiritual development only comes from conflict?
Spiritual development comes from a need to connect from inside, not because things are hard on the outside but because you recognise the divine nature of your love and happiness. Spiritual development based on unhappiness and martyrdom is not true spirituality, you are using your faith as a crutch to avoid changing things because the change scares you or because a misplaced ideology that you don't deserve/need a happy fulfilled life.
As I wrote, no god would demand you suffer unnecessarily, it is a very anti-joy way of life. Why would you do that to yourself? Is this how you want to end your days? ON your tombstone it would read 'She suffered but she did it well'?

mena said...

To me and from what I've read from your blog, there isn't a lot of difference between what you have now and your idea of a happy ever after married life. I've also not gotten the impression that you are "suffering" or think you are, as you must have married your husband knowing he has two wives already.

*[personally, I would not marry anyone with a wife, let alone two, even if hes the "bestest" man on earth, but well, we are different.]*

Based on this, I don't get what the first comment on this post is about.

Donald said...

3rd said: And I would maybe ask Mr.Hubby to make love to me a third time again.

Ay, caramba! Don't tell Mr Hubby that, or he may very well elope with you!

Anyway, thank you for answering my question… and then some!!

This issue of suffering and spiritual development is an interesting one… but it deserves more time and effort to comment on than I currently have. Maybe later.

Natja's Natterings said...

>Based on this, I don't get what the first comment on this post is about.

I don't know if you are referring to me Mena but I don't know what you are on about, I am IN a poly relationship and the only suffering we do is missing each other. So what is your point? Are my points less valid because I wouldn't subject myself to a life of stress and competition? Oooh yeah that makes perfect sense.....

mena said...

@Natja, I am sorry if you find my post offensive. I did not know your reference to suffering was more about your own experience than 3rds, and I did not know you are also in a poly marriage. Well my point is, 3rd, unlike many other poly bloggers did not fill her blog with mainly the pains and bad sides of polygyny; she at times writes like someone who is content with her life and her chosen type of marriage. I respect her for not coming on here whining about her marriage all the time, because, I as a person find it hard to feel sorry for women who complain about suffering in polygyny if they chose to marry a married man kowingly. I am not (yet) in a poly marriage but my dad married a second wife when I was just 5, and my mum is still hurting even after 3 decades.

ChristianFundyMom said...

Wow! I LOVE this post!!!!! Probably one of my favorites!

Natja's Natterings said...

Mena my point was, yes the third might be content most of the time, she chose this life I suppose, but I don't see the spiritual value in her facing conflict on an almost day to day basis, it seems a very warped ideology about faith, the divine and loivong relationships that she would prefer to be in a conflict ridden relationship because she feels she wouldn't 'learn' anything in a happy conflictless one.

Also, all relationships have conflict, that is life but the competition and hurt that does not ease is more a martyrs call, I don't understand why anyone would do that to themselves. Your mother doesn't seem to have had a choice in the matter Mena, in which case I feel for her, let her have her anger, it is probably the only thing that keeps her going.

Patriarchy has a lot to answer for as far as I am concerned.

3rd... said...

@mena.. nice to have you here! I am really interested to know how you've felt about living in a polygynous family. I am sometimes worried about how our kids will feel or do feel already and what the best way would be to deal with this. Its easy to get caught up in your own drama and forget about how its imapcting the kids in the meanwhile..

To reply to natja's comments: I get where you are comming from. I'm content with my chosen path, I just try and be honest about the challenges I deal with. And it might just be a fundamental difference in beliefs between us - I do not believe that this life is meant for seeking happiness. I believe that its meant for us to ween off our ego from the desire for this world. For me real happiness is when I will have no more jealousy, no more anger, no more envy etc within me. Real happiness for me is not - not to feel any of these things because I am not confronted with them. We all have these characteristics in us.. for me - its about getting rid of them. And that can be painful, yes, but rewarding as well.

Hidden Sage said...

@ Natja “Happiness? Contentment? Why is it that some people think that spiritual development only comes from conflict?”

Some people may think that, but that’s definitely not what 3rd
is saying. Conflict reveals your inner state to the outside world; it’s what shows you where you are within yourself in relation to the universe around you. We work on ourselves in times of peace and quiet,that’s when we reflect, contemplate, and adjust. The conflicts that come upon us are our means of measuring ourselves, to better ourselves if we so chose. Inner beauty is attained, not simply given.

Conflict brings out our true state;
you may think you’ve reached a state of contentment and inner peace only to find yourself totally outraged at events/people/life around you when they rub you the wrong way.

As for “using faith as a crutch to avoid changing things,” yea
there are people that do that, but again, it doesn’t look like that’s what 3rd is talking about. Development can only come through change and if you’re not content (I think the word happy is much too ague and weak), then faith allows you to seek positive change fearlessly.

Faith would allow you to grow enough such that your tombstone would read, "She blossomed into beauty, and she did it well."

Helene said...

Hello 3rd,
You said:

"I do not believe that this life is meant for seeking happiness."

That is clear. You also said:

"...For me real happiness is when I will have no more jealousy, no more anger, no more envy etc within me. Real happiness for me is not - not to feel any of these things... "

Seen by itself, that is clear too. Could you explain how these 2 statements relate together in your own mind; the first, which denies that happiness is to be established as an objective, the second which asserts that happiness is the purpose for spiritual struggle?

Many thanks for your blog.

Natja's Natterings said...

Sorry Hidden Sage, perhaps I am really thick but I haven't a clue what you are on about. I suppose my life is not about blossoming into beauty, I don't want to die with a beautiful corpse anyway. I want to enjoy every single second of my life, it is obviously not going to happen but it is my aim. Being 'content' is not enough for me and frankly I pity anyone who feels they don't deserve more than mere contentment.
Good luck to you though.

Hidden Sage said...

Joy is a temporary state that comes and goes, it’s momentary. Once the pursuit of joy in one matter has been achieved, the chase for it begins elsewhere. It’s an endless race for fleeting pleasures which eventually exhausts most people.
Contentment is a state of mind and spirit, it’s continuous and doesn’t end. It isn’t based upon chasing outward experiences; it’s an inward state of gratification and fulfillment.
As for you not getting my response to Tombstone header, “She suffered but she did it well” with “She blossomed into beauty, and she did it well” I’ll let you figure that one out in your own time. But here’s a hint: I’m not referring to beautiful corpses, that’s for sure. There’s a world beyond the physical.

Natja's Natterings said...

Joy is temporary if you only get your jollies from external factors, I live in a state of joy because it is part of my nature to love LIVING not just experiences in life. I wake up every morning and am glad that I have actually woken up, I am relatively healthy and the people I choose to have in my life love me, were they to die I would have had that love and been grateful for it. I would rather have one year with a person who loves me than suffer through a lifetime of people just putting up with me. THAT is dying spiritually fulfilled as far as I am concerned.

Dwell on that.

Hidden Sage said...

“Joy is temporary if you only get your jollies from external factors,”
True. Thinking people love you is a great example of basing joy on an external factor.

“I wake up every morning and am glad that I have actually woken up, I am relatively healthy and the people I choose to have in my life love me, were they to die I would have had that love and been grateful for it.”

Why do the people you –choose to- have in your life love you? What is it that you have done to or for them? If it’s about you just being you then, what do you offer? There is something you offer on some level that benefits others, which would make them incline towards you, which in turn makes you feel loved. It may simply be a smile, it may be hearing them out, whatever it is, it is something that you learned or improved on to helps others. You’ve developed yourself into a person others find beautiful and your success in that brings you joy. That’s all good and even praiseworthy maybe, but it’s still joy based on an external factor.

“I would rather have one year with a person who loves me than suffer through a lifetime of people just putting up with me. “
Of course. A word to the wise: note that the more people hear you say ‘me’, ‘my’, or ‘I’, repeatedly every time you talk, know that they will eventually be people that simply put up with you, because people wrapped up in themselves make small packages.

You’ve shared some fun thoughts here, and once again 3rds comments take on interesting tangents.


new#3 said...

I love this post! What a nice fantasy...some of which you could possibly attain, like the living arrangements for instance~

Natja's Natterings said...

Aaah what different world we live in that you devalue love so...

I know I am loved for who I am, even if it is the egotist in me, am I worried? Ermmm, no, because I am not so insecure that I would rather spend my life for others rather than myself.
Perhaps you should try it?

How lonely you must feel sage, I pity you.

Donald said...

As entertaining as this is — and I hesitate to get caught in the crossfire — perhaps there is some wisdom in what both of you have said? Some common ground?

I thought Natja made some reasonable points about misplaced martyrdom. The practice of wearing a barbed cilice belt is an extreme example of such a foolish philosophy — that through self-inflicted harm and suffering one may somehow share in the sufferings of Christ and aspire to greater holiness. (To me, as a Christian, that is nothing but an insult to Jesus — to think one can somehow add to what he accomplished through self-inflicted suffering.)

On the other hand, I also believe it's foolishness to think you can escape suffering in this lifetime, or that there is no cause noble enough to warrant patient endurance. Let's face it — relationships can be difficult. If you run away from a relationship every time things don't go the way you want, will that really bring lasting happiness and contentment in your life? I don't think so.

I would also observe that people seem to grow and mature the most, not in the most pleasant times, but through the more difficult times. Of all the people I know, those who have suffered most in their lives seem to have the greatest depth of character. I'm not saying that's a global principle, or that we can't grow without suffering — it's just an observation.

It's also through hardship that we really learn to appreciate the good times. As Will Shakespeare wrote, 'If all the year were playing holidays, to sport would be as tedious as to work'. Would you agree Natja? How does the blissful life you now lead compare to previous times in your life? Do you think you appreciate what you have all the more for having suffered some time in the past?

My wife and I rarely fast, but we did once for three days — no food at all. The first thing we ate at the end of the fast was a fresh bread roll with butter — and I can tell you, food never tasted so good in all my life! It was heavenly. But again, I'm not saying fasting is for everyone, or that we should inflict suffering on ourselves for such a purpose as this — it's just an observation.

I thought Sage made some good points, and if I can attempt to paraphrase what I thought he was saying, it might be that conflict is not something we seek out, but neither is it something we run away from, since it teaches us valuable lessons about ourselves, and therefore gives us opportunity to grow into better people.

But perhaps where I'm a little confused about both of your comments would be on the topic of 'love'. As I see it, there is nothing greater in all of life worth seeking, protecting, suffering for, and enjoying than love. Yes, sometimes we suffer for love! Genuine love that is. How can you live for yourself and truly love others? The greatest love you could have for anyone would be to lay down your life for them — so it sounds like my definition of love may not be fully compatible with Natja's. But if Sage believes that true contentment or lasting joy can happen without the love of others, then I must disagree with that too. The theory may sound profound — that one can be so at peace with themselves and the Universe that they have no need of love from another — but I don't believe that's how we were created. I believe we do need love. Love is to our spirit what air, water and food are to our bodies.

Okay, that's my 5 cents. Carry on… :)

Natja's Natterings said...

Oh Donald that was a lovely post. Ermm, I wasn't very clear about the love thing, so I don't think our ideas are so different, I am actually a giver, more than a taker, still even that can be considered selfish as I love to give to those I love because I like to make them happy. I don't live for just myself, though I don't live FOR them, I just live and I think I deserve (as does everyone) a certain level of happiness in life, not that we all get it mind, but we deserve it, from childhood to adulthood, so my dispute is, if someone is PURPOSELY outting themselves in a position to suffer in the misplaced belief that it will make them a 'better person' than I think they are on a fools errand.
Life might knock you down a bit, but you should get back up, those that stay on the ground saying 'kick me, it will make me stronger in the long term' will not get anything more out of life than bruises and a damanged soul, it is up to us to be responsible for attaining self improvement and we get there by removing the damage and the negative aspects and not wallowing in them, only then can we attain a greater sense of the divine.


PS Donald you rock!

Donald said...

Oh stop it… you'll make me blush and go all gooey!

PAUL said...

Guys, why does it always get messy when people talk about love, marriage, polgyny,...Why can't life just be as simple as liking and loving - because ultimately that's what it is; you choose to like and love or to hate - you also choose to be happy ( please notice I did not say you choose to have problems/trouble or not to - before I get shot down.... :P.

I keep wondering why we blame a lot of trouble on POLYGYNY...the real issue is the weakness amoungst Human beings/Human nature.One philospher said "to err is human" - one Holy Book (Bible) talks of Isaac having a monogamous marriage - that did not save his family from severe competition, breakup, treachery,taking sides, I do not beleive any problems we have in Polygyny are from it being 'in-herently bad' but from the massive weaknesses human beings have resultant of 'human nature'and their failure to manage and address these weaknesses honestly. I know for a fact that if you do not know you have a problem you will never fix it.

So what am I saying ?
i) Joy is resultant of one choosing to be happy - not what you have or do not have. But complete joy comes from personal decision to live a truly spiritual life more than anything else.

ii) Polygyny is not really the problem - its Human nature thats really the problem; for people will be nasty when they will be.

Now I am ready to be shot down :D


3rd... said...

thanks Paul! awesome comment..

UmmAbdur-Rahmaan said...

your so gross...thanks for mental pictures I can live without....ewwwww....And after all of this you would still live in polygyny

3rd... said...

after all of this..? what exactly? ur welcome for the mental pics! :D

UmmAbdur-Rahmaan said...

I meant I guess after knowing what polygyny is all about...I don't know why are you asking me hard questions.....