Dear 3rd, my husband wants another woman, should I agree to it?

It's been ages since I have written on this blog. Every now and then - maybe a few times a year - I open up my mailbox just out of curiosity. Interestingly enough people still email me regularly. They ask for advice or sometimes want me to be part of some television show on polygamy. (Sorry tv-folks; not going to happen.)

A question I have received often comes from women who are asking for advice whether or not they should agree to their husband taking on another wife. I am sure many women point blank refuse such a thought from their husband. The ones that email me are usually struggling, they are not sure whether to be open to the idea or not.

So if you are in this situation - and you are wondering what to do - I have no clear cut answer, but the only thing I can do is give you some ideas to consider.

Usually the women see certain benefits in the arrangement.

_ someone to help out around the house and with the kids

sounds appealing right?...someone to help out with the task of taking care of the household, bringing kids to soccer practice, cleaning up some of the mess

_ someone to be friends with and confide in

wouldn't it be great to have someone who completely agrees that your husband is being insensitive and helps you fight some of the battles you have with him, so he will end up more considerate?

_someone who keeps the husband satisfied se.xually

after years of marriage some women don't have the energy to be as physically intimate with their husbands as they were in the beginning, to an extent they like the thought of someone else taking some of this pressure off of them

Now, I can see all these points, and I am sure there are polygynous relationships in which the women actually experience these benefits. But there is a big thing missing in these considerations...
What will the second wife want out of the arrangement?
And what will the husband want out of the arrangement?

Before making a decision you have to consider the second wife's point of view.
She probably doesn't feel like she has been put on earth to make your life easier and unburden you. And no matter how selfless an act you are performing by allowing her to step into your relationship with your husband, she will want a relationship of her own with him. She will want to be treated as an equal, and not as someone who is there to give you and your husband room to breathe.

This is a basic human need, and as a woman you should respect that.

Once you allow her in, you will have to SHARE. If you are ok with that, if you are ok with making arrangements during the holidays on who gets quality time with him when, who gets what weekend days with him when, if you are ok with her having kids of her own and you will be understanding that her kids will need just as much time with their dad as your kids do... if you realize that she is her own person with her own points of view that will be different from yours ... then ok - you may potentially be ready to reap the benefits of polygyny.

But there is still your husband's point of view to consider.
I know many people look down on this way of life and say that the husband is just exploiting the women, he is some per.vert or whatever... All bs if you ask me. It is perfectly normal for a very decent and kind guy to think of other women and maybe even to want to take care of more than one woman and more than one family.

Sure some men may be driven to this because they are sexually frustrated. In that case they may end up bringing in a second wife which doesn't share any of the values that you do. Men's ability to reject women and be selective is limited at that point. This second wife he brings in may be insecure, needy, ready to accept you as part of the relationship only because she thinks she can make him leave you in the end and choose her instead... Beware of your husband's ability to choose carefully... it may become a nightmare if he introduces a bad sample.

Now let's assume you have a decent and caring guy who is simply very honest about his internal desires and wants to offer both you and another woman a good life.
Understand that he will be choosing a wife. He is not choosing a person to help you in the household and change nappies of your babies. If that were the case you would be looking at news paper ads for homemakers. Nope.. he will chose someone he is physically and emotionally attracted to and that will be visible to you. You know your husband better than anyone else. Do you really think you won't be confronted with these emotions which will start to develop in both of them?
Be ready to deal with a husband that will be in a happy pinky place, a bit distracted, and giddy. That can be utterly annoying if you are stressed out and feeling alone.

You may be reading this and thinking - I can accept this in principle. I can understand my husband's needs and also the second wife's needs. I think I can do this.

Then hey - live and prosper! :)

I personally don't believe I could have done this without faith. You know, we are all mortals, flawed, ego-driven and ego-centric. My husband has hurt me many times, as well as my sister-wives. And I have hurt them. On some occasions it has been really rough. There were times with very little communication between us sister wives. Or periods of time when we were all upset with our husband and he was getting troubles in any home he went to.
Whoever has read through my blog has seen some of that in the posts.
I don't think I would have stuck through it if I didn't believe it served a bigger purpose. If I didn't believe this is where God wanted me to be.
That has been my way of going through all of this and finally - as my last post said - getting undefined by the situation. I am a wife of my husband. The whole 3rd thing really doesn't matter.
And my sisterwives are his wives too.
Their numbers don't matter either.

I hope whatever you chose to do, that you are honest with yourself. Never let a man drag you into a situation where you feel you are crossing your own boundaries. We should never let people bully us into anything. And we should definitely not be married to someone who pushes us to do stuff we feel uncomfortable with. If you want to explore this way of life, do it at your pace. He wants something from you right? Then he better let you decide the pace.

Good luck to all,
and if you want to email me or comment on this - feel free to do so. I may reply some months later, but your message WILL be read. :)

Love
3rd (who doesn't care she is 3rd anymore :p)

Picture perfect

The last post raised some questions, and I have been thinking about what you asked - whether I'd prefer monogamy with Mr.Hubby if it were an option.. SoI tried to imagine my fairy tale life so to say..so I could give you an honest answer.

So here goes my picture perfect:

I’d be married to Mr.Hubby, and he’d be a ten year younger version of himself but absolutely with the same wisdoms, characteristics, personality (e.g. maturity level) which he has now.. I would have sisterwives which would truly be like sisters to me. I think I’d like to have two, and they’d be in about the same age range as I. We would be true friends and I’d love them as I love my own sister.

We’d all have kids, and none of the them would be older than four. Each one of the wives would take turns in running daycare for the kids. And once the kids would grow older we might chose to home school them.

We would live in adjacent homes, with a big communal living and kitchen so we could have our dinners together. We’d have two days with Mr.Hubby each, so everyone would be with him in the weekends eventually.

My day would look something like this: Getting the kids ready, if it were my turn to babysit, I would obviously be doing that until it were time to start preparing dinner. On other days I would start my day by going to the gym to keep everything nice and toned, then run errands, rest some (especially if it were my day with hubby so I would be refreshed when he came home), go to the salon to get properly waxed in all the necessary places, chat or meet with my sisterwives and other friends and family, prepare dinner, preferably together with another sisterwife.. I am still undecided whether I would like to cook, but I would definitely master the skill of making sweets and jummy cookies and all. So the kids would think I am such a cool mom and auntie and they’d sneak into my kitchen to steal something. I’d always pretend not to notice.
We would all have dinner together and it would be a big and messy but most importantly warm family. After dinner, the necessary cleaning and getting kids to bed, my evening would depend on whether Mr.Hubby were with me that day or not.

If it were my day:
With Mr.Hubby being away for some days, having him home again would make me look forward to it. I would make sure to take a short shower, and have the diligence to slip into something nice like a nightgown (instead of my shorts and stuff which I wear now). I would have rested during the day so there would be no tiredness bothering me..

I’d make it my personal objective to make Mr.Hubby loose himself fully and loudly under me.. I’d give him and myself the opportunity to rest for some hours after which I would ask him to kindly return the favor. After this there would be time to talk and reflect about whatever happened to be on our mind.

If it weren’t my day with him:
I would use the evenings for spiritual readings, contemplation, writing, painting, meeting with the sisterwife who was also by herself that day, in the weekends maybe arrange sleepovers for all the kids while me and the other sisterwife indulge in some delicious ice-cream all the while reassuring one another that we deserved it and that it wouldn’t ruin our thighs..

My family and friends would know about my lifestyle, and would learn to accept it. They would come over occasionally and sometimes my kids would go over to them and have sleepovers with their cousins.

I would feel safe and protected within my family unit, and we would be united by a bond of trust and love.

….

And I would maybe ask Mr.Hubby to make love to me a third time again..

….

Yeah. That’s my picture perfect.

And it really isn’t impossible to reach. I mean, I couldn’t have a Mr.Hubby be ten years younger, but let’s say I would be with a different man, spiritual and kind just as Mr.Hubby and two nice sisterwives. They are out there, I have met some of them..
But:
1.

Living this life, and then dying, would result in what? I mean, what would that mean for my spiritual development? Having nice sisterwives and a life which doesn’t confront me with anything within me, would result into what exactly?
2.

I am no way near this perfection myself. I am not as perfect towards Mr.Hubby nor towards my sisterwives as I would want to be. My own pride and pettiness hold me down. So instead of expecting them to change to my liking I might better try and change myself. Their change may follow naturally..

So this is why I say gems are hidden in all the problems. They are opportunities for me to learn to be that better person, the one which trusts, loves, shows kindness, and generosity, and humility to others..

The core of things

I just read a post on CM's blog, and this part triggered some thoughts..

Other women who are in polygamous marriages for religious reasons describe spiritual benefits. I can definitely see how polygamy would force a woman to stretch and grow spiritually as she tries to rid herself of the negative emotions and behaviors that are bound to arise. I am fairly certain everyone will concede that women have to develop charity, love, unselfishness, forgiveness, and many other saintly attributes in order to live polygamy successfully. I also can envision how this lifestyle would motivate a woman to turn to God often for His divine help, love, and understanding as she struggles with all that is involved in sharing a husband. However, I am not sure I consider these items real "benefits" but instead I consider them to be beneficial results from living a hard situation.

You see, I find the spiritual benefits really the only real benefits, in anything, whether it be polygyny or life in general.. what else is there?

Being unselfish, caring, forgiving, humble etc. isn’t that the best thing we all could aspire to? Sometimes I feel so sad that these values are not held in a high esteem any more. And I am not making a reference to CM here, as I know she is a wonderful person and does value these things in people. I am talking in general. I mean there used to be something as knighthood in which values such as chivalry, defending the weak and helpless and being generous were held in high esteem. Very few attained these values, but they were perceived as important and people who reached some of them were respected. Nowadays gaining material riches is the highest goal it seems.

I was taught in school that what distinguishes humans from animals is reason, the ability to think about oneself and reflect upon oneself. And I have come to disagree with this notion. A child predator has reason, a rapist has reason, all these people think, reflect, make very elaborate plans on how to achieve their objectives in a way in which no animal could, yet they are animals. They are animals because they are not humane.

It is our ability to be humane which truly makes us human.

And being humane is really hard. Its like our heart is pure humanity but its covered with weed of jealousy, envy, vain, greed and all the other bad characteristics.

And isn’t the best goal in life to get rid of those dirty things within ourselves and let that best of character which is in us to fully flourish? So we may all be like stars of goodness on this planet?

Reflecting on past year with the blog

It's been somewhat over a year ago that I started this blog, and I have been reflecting on what it has meant for me.. Someone once gave me the advice to always reflect what a chosen path has lead you to as it will clearly tell you whether you are on the right path or not. Has it brought you nearer to your goal?

The biggest benefit from starting this blog was discovering that there are so many people out there living in polygyny and realizing that it can work. Sometimes you get stuck in your own view of life. I might think that it is absolutely not done to hug Mr.Hubby in front of a sisterwife. But is it really not done? And if another sisterwife did this, does it mean she’s being mean towards me? Probably not. So it has made me re-evaluate certain viewpoints that I just take for granted.

Reading the blogs where polygyny works as well as where it’s still a major struggle, has been insightful. I have come to appreciate Mr.Hubby’s way of handling things a lot more, and I have become more understanding of the way my sisterwives deal with their struggles.

In some ways I have formed a clearer perspective on how I think polygyny should work, instead of just trying to follow Mr.Hubby’s take on it. And I have come to realize that my main weakness lies in the extent to which I want a close bond with my sisterwives. This I think is my main struggle and the main reason why it has been so hard to become close thus far. I just don’t want it badly enough. 2nd always sais its because I am happy with my relationship with Mr.Hubby that I don’t really desire to be close friends with her and confide in her. I am not sure if that’s the real reason, but somehow I feel like it’s good enough to like each other and get along. And I have still to figure out how to get myself to take the next step and really throw my heart into the relationship with my sisterwives.

So in conclusion, I think blogging has been a good decision. I informed Mr.Hubby about my blog and let him read it a few weeks ago. He’s somewhat confused about how it all works but has found it alright so far.

.

@CM - Why polygyny

Anonymous signed CM posed some good questions about polygyny as a reply to my previous post, which I will try to answer here.

CM, first off, thanks for the nice comment and your genuine interest. I totally understand where you are coming from – I think I would have had similar questions had I read a blog like mine before coming to faith..

The way you state my situation is quite correct I guess..

“You support yourself”
Yes, though it’s my choice – I could expect from Mr.Hubby to support me, but I like using my brains and earning my own money, so this actually works for me
“You only get to see your husband one or two days a week"
Actually two days every two weeks, in the meantime we do see each other but it’s not ‘my day’ which means he spends the night at another home
“You have to delay having children now”
This has nothing to do with the principle of polygyny or with what God asks of women, it’s just that I don’t know yet how to handle my family, society, questions from my kid(s) etc
“If and when you do have children they will have a part time father”
Yes, they will
“In many ways you will have to raise them like a single mom”
Indeed
“Your husband on the other hand has four wives and is never alone unless he chooses to”
He is indeed never alone, and choosing to be alone is hardly an option for him as it will most probably not be accepted by the wife whose day it is
“Has children and decides his schedule with them”
The schedule is decided by the mothers and the children not by Mr.Hubby
“Can choose to add as more wives without the consent of the other wives”
Indeed no consent is needed from the wives, though any sane man would make sure they are on board since otherwise he would surely go nuts trying to make peace
“Has a variety of se.xual partners that are sanctioned by God”
Yes, obviously he does

This however is also very true:
While each wife has time for herself, to meet with friends by herself etc, Mr.Hubby has to be present and involved with someone in his family every day. This means that if he is tired from work and would have nothing rather than to sit quietly for some hours, he simply can’t do that. The family has been waiting for him, they need 100% of his attention and his care.
This also means that if he has had a fight with one of the wives and is on his way home to a different wife, he needs to shake it off and put on his happy face in order to give them the care and attention which they are entitled to.
If the husbands desires to be alone with one of his wives, he has to wait just as the wife does. And this can be just as hard on him as it is on the wives. The fact that he is with someone doesn’t mean that he can’t miss another wife..

This continuous effort from a man’s part is something which is demanded by God as well.. A man has the right to have more than one wife, but has obligations towards them as well, and the rights of women are in God’s hands. So any man with any faith in his heart will feel a heavy load making sure he is doing right by his wives.

I have read quite some polygyny blogs, and I have found many situations there which seem unjust and cruel. Maybe the men have taken their task too lightly - I am sure many men do.. I guess men think “yes! polygyny! – a variety of se.xual partners!” But then it turns out they don’t get a variety of se.xual partners instead they get wives, with demands, and feelings, and emotions, and kids, and bills, and responsibilities.. which is of course less appealing than dating, or adultery, or maybe even serial monogamy.

Polygyny is hard. But I can say that I prefer it above monogamy. The reason for it is that I get a better husband and a better father for it. Dealing with multiple families, continuously, with an intention to do as pleases God, gives more insights in ourselves and in others, it makes us grow.
I guess I experience polygyny as a crash course in human relationships. Mr.Hubby tells us all the trials and tribulations, the emotional rollercoasters of polygyny have made him understand and realize so many things which he never knew when he was in a monogamous relationship with 1st. And 1st agrees. She often sais how she really thought she knew herself and could say she knew the way she would respond to a situation – when in fact she got to know so many things about herself when she had to share Mr.Hubby.

Now the question is - is that important to a person? Maybe for people it will be good enough to be together and have a fairly uncomplicated and content life.. that's fine also. I am very happy with this aspect of polygyny though, since I am hoping to better myself as much as I can..

Also what's very important to me is that Mr.Hubby is clean in his mind and heart because he has no desire for other women. Just think about it. How massive is the industry catering to men’s se.xual thoughts and desires? All these men are husbands and fathers as well…

CM, I’ve tried to answer your questions as much as I could.
Why God asks this of women.. I don’t think that’s the right question. God asks something of men and women. I think God has created men in a certain way, and women in a certain way. With our own good and bad traits. And it is my beliefs that most men are better men when they have more than one wife and deal with that right in an honorable way. And most women are better women when they share their husband and can get past jealousy and fear.

I feel like I am not jealous of the other wives any more. They get on my nerves still sometimes, but it’s not because of jealousy in the sense that it bothers me to know they sleep with Mr.Hubby. I feel that forming a good bond with my sisterewives is the next step. The next step in burning away my ego and becoming more humble, more accepting of whatever God ordains for me, becoming a nicer human being… It’s the next step.. I definitely have a lot to do still.
:)
But if you look at it from this perspective it becomes a means to an end, instead of a sacrifice for an unclear cause..

Please let me know whether any of this makes sense to you..

Emotional self-confidence

I decided to go green yesterday. I had a meeting with a customer which was a two hour drive. By train it took me just as long, though it allowed me to catch up on some sleep and on my way back, to catch up on some work as well.

A teenage couple was sitting nearby. Well, I didn’t know they were a couple till I happened to look at them and saw this very naughty look on the girl’s face. I realized that her foot was slowly rubbing up against his leg. I figured they were at least more than just friends.
Then the girl did the classic kitty kat stretch, which told me that an important statement was coming. Know what I mean? It goes like this: lazily stretch your arms above your head, with face turned towards the side, a look in your eyes that sais you’re ready for bed - totally relaxed, then slowly turn your eyes back to the boy with a suppressed smile… then the statement can be made. Hers: “I so hope this thing will never become like this boyfriend/girlfriend thing, and we’d be exclusive or something. That’s way too boring.” Foot rubbing up against his leg a bit more..then a giggle.

I was surprised by her words, it made me wonder whether it could be true that this young girl was truly not emotionally attached? Was she maybe an example of a young girl that is just looking for fun and feels no social or moral restrictions? Was she really that into physical pleasure as she was so eager to signal to the boy?
I drifted away in these thoughts while looking out the window, after a while I looked back at them, actually still in a sort of wonderment, when I saw her in tears. The guy asked why she got so emotional all of a sudden. She answered that he was acting so distant and cold. He placed his hands on her knees and asked her what she meant. She dried her eyes and said she was just acting silly because she was tired and that he shouldn’t pay too much attention to her.

And then I knew that it was all an act. She was so dependant, maybe even desperate, that she pretended to be some kind of n y m p h o just to keep him. She was trying to be what she thought his ideal girl was, the girl he would never get bored with.
How sad. I wondered if the boy knew. Would he forever think of her as the young n y m p h o he was with or would he realize she was just too much in love with him? Did the girl know she was not so into s e x as she pretended to be? Maybe she convinced herself that she was indeed happy with their “non exclusive, non boyfriend/girlfriend thing”?

This dependence, this fear of losing someone and the willingness to do something to keep them, I recognize this from my relationships before I came to faith. And I must say that living in polygyny has taught me independence. It has taught me that it doesn’t matter whether a man loves you more or maybe less than another woman, whether he is attracted to other women or not - you don’t lose anything, you are not worth less because of it. My life and me as a person are totally unrelated to how special I am to Mr.Hubby. That’s so liberating. It’s important to have a warm and understanding relationship with your partner, which I feel I do. But he may go if he chooses to...And I have no fear of losing him.

I am sure many women have learned this through their life and I am not saying one should be in polygyny to get to this point. It just happens to be so with me.

So about that rant

To my previous post Donald and Anonymous posted some good questions.. I wanted to address them before moving on to a new topic. You see, that article bothered me for multiple reasons, the main one being that I find more and more that sess is being reduced to a mere physical act. And we teach this to our youngsters through media. And it really isn’t a physical act – it’s about intimacy and love. As the name sais actually..

What this article suggested is that if your love life has gotten a little dull you should try a new position, buy some toys, introduce new partners even.. While, when there is a lack of emotional intimacy between two people then their intimate life will not feel as warm, passionate and satisfying as it first did. The problem is really emotional and has nothing to do with where you put your leg, whether you are flexible enough, and whether you do the same thing every time you are together.

Now I hate the fact that we portray sess as so emotionless to our youngsters. It results in girls doing stuff which they actually do not feel completely comfortable with, but which they believe is the way it should be. I hate the fact that in the article all the girls were reluctant but then eventually consented. Young girls reading the article will end up doing the same.. it’s not much different from girls being seduced into getting paid for sess. It still happens to too many teenage girls. They get an older boyfriend, he convinces them to sleep with a friend of his, then he convinces them that getting paid for it is really not a big deal. Before they even realize they have been seduced to something they never wanted or wished. Why not teach young girls to listen to their instincts and be brave enough to say “this is what I like, this is what I feel comfortable with, take it or leave it”. There is no need to compromise your own self for the sake of another’s lusts.. where do you draw the line then? If there is anything I am happy to have learned in the course of my young life than it would be to trust my inner voice, and be brave enough to express it.

Now men are by nature more sessually driven. So I recognize that a lot of men want more sess and are often frustrated when they are married, they get kids, and their wife is too exhausted to look after them.

That’s why I feel so happy with Mr.Hubby. He never places any demands on me because he’s fine. If I am exhausted, I can feel exhausted and be exhausted and sleep without feeling guilty about leaving him in the cold. That is what I meant when I said that it’s all about me. I don’t need to do anything which I don’t feel like because he has no thirst for more or different.. so intimacy is really about intimacy and it’s absolutely suited to what I need or want.

Rants.. what happened with sessual revolution?

So I bought this fashion magazine to catch up on the latest styles, even though I don't follow any trends sometimes it's nice to see what the fashion guru’s have come up with for the season. Very naively I started reading the articles as well, which I usually skip, I just check the pics, there's no interesting things to read in fashion magazine's anyway I believe.. Well! Boy was I shocked!

The title of the piece was something like “sometimes it’s good to try something new”. And basically it told the story of a few women who tried out new things – sessually. All the story lines went like this – I had been with my boyfriend / husband for 3 / 5 years and he had often made comments or jokes about us doing a tre-some / switching partners with friends / trying out sesstoys etc. I never thought much about it, but after a while he really became serious about the issue and I understood that it was something that he really wanted. I was wary at first but decided to at least give it a try and see what it was like before judging about it.
Eventually every one of them had tried what their partner wanted of them and had had a good time, and all of them said well, it was a onetime thing, and they weren’t really planning on making it a habit, but who knows..

And I was like WTF???

So my 15 year old cousin could buy this piece of crap and read it? What the F is wrong with these people?

I was so amazed. I mean in EVERY story line the guy came with the request and the girl just went along with it reluctantly. Since when did the sessual revolution end being about doing exactly that which pleases you the most, and it became about doing whatever the man finds pleasing?

The even more insane thing is, that each and every one of these women would look at me and feel sorry for me, because I am sharing my husband with three other women. They would feel like I am doing something to please him, and am thus sacrificing something of myself. The truth is that I never experience any of this sh!t which I just read. He never ever puts any demands on me in these terms. There is no need to try out new stuff. Intimacy is all about ME, whatever I want, whatever I wish. If it may be a good night sleep - I get a spoony behind me and it’s fine.

What a relief…

PS. I say sess with double s because I don't want any unwanted Ads popping up.. ;)