Thursday, September 18, 2008

About the nature of men

This week I had a strange customer visit. It was supposed to be a tough conversation, since they were planning on switching to a competitor. My colleague who manages the account asked me to come with to maybe try and smooth things out and help create a value proposition so they would continue. This whole business issue is not important, what I am trying to explain is that we expected a hostile environment, but it turned out completely differently as they are now considering continuing the relationship.

Afterwards my colleague and I were evaluating the positive outcome and he said that he already scored points when he brought me in. We were in a room with eight men – all from our customer’s side, and then my colleague who’s a guy. So I was the only lady in there. He (my coworker) said that they were already less hostile just because I was there and that it would have been way tougher were there only men. He told me that while I was speaking one of the guys was just staring at me with his mouth open. So my colleague was happy – he said he fought half the battle just by bringing me in. I am realizing this more and more. How much a woman can accomplish among men. It’s a delicate balance, since you can’t make a man think you’re available, but you can make him feel at ease and happy to be around you – enough to make it easier to achieve whatever you want to achieve.
Sometimes, I wonder, why are men so weak when it comes to women?

See Hidden Sage’s post about how he fell for this lady which lead him to lose all his focus towards spirituality.. Reading it made me wonder about how hard it actually is to achieve things in spirituality. Though the verb “achieve” is misplaced here since it really only pertains to the material life. In spirituality there are no achievements, there is only submission. But if you are striving for it, trying to reach it - to get there is hard.
I guess for a man not to desire women must be so hard. So if a man needs to leave that in order to reach God, whew… that’s huge. Maybe that’s why they get more than one wife. Then they are at ease, not easily distracted by all other women, so they can focus on God. But hey, then the ladies start to make trouble between themselves and with the husband. And he is left solving problems the whole day.. LOL Each step brings new problems I guess..
I guess the hardest thing for ladies is jealousy. It’s not sess, it’s not desire for men, it’s jealousies, and maybe shoes. Leaving shoes and nice dresses for ascetic life is hard on us too. But nothing compared to dealing with the egoistic, selfish, and downright mean characteristics of the sisterwives and husband..
So maybe polygyny is a double-edged sword meant to cut bad characteristics away from both men and women.


Anonymous said...

Well, perhaps that's why woman are ordained by God to be modest and cover their hair.

I know that I get looks in meetings, but usually its because they wonder why I wear the headscarf-open mouth signifying something completely different.

I would love to show off pretty clothes, but when wearing hijab you must cover wearing clothes that are loose, not transparant and cover your whole body (except face). After years of wearing the hijab, I have ofcused on my inner self and my spirituality more and have forced those men around me to deal with me intellectually and not by my physical attributes.

I am not critizising your beauty, or display of it, but you are definately using your beauty and sexuality to entice men.

Polygymy is allowed in Islam even in countries like Afghanistan where the man may never have even seen the bride's face. Because they wish to marry in order to serve God by helping widows and orphans.

The way you describe polygyny is how it is practiced in the West (by some Muslims and some Christians, not all). Since they are "enticed" by the beauty of women around them and can't control themselves, they need to find an alternative to sleeping around.

I have many opinions on this, but I have said enough.

Muhammad said...

I don't know. When I was married I never had a problem looking at other women. Although they would entice me when I was married it was all about my wife. However I still wanted polygynny. I think I wanted it for other reasons. I'm not saying the sess didn't have some weight in the issue, but I think that it was about more than that. It is always about more than that because the act only takes such a small part of life and the rest of life takes up the rest of the time. So spirituality and striving to be equal is definitely a major factor. Trying to be raised without being disfigured on the day of judgement. So it has different dimensions.

I really like your blog. It is full of candor and honesty and provides one looking through the window a truer perspective of the feelings of a woman a THIRD at that in what it is like to be in a Polygynny. I suppose in my own situation you can see how traumatic it is for the woman leading up to polygyny. However my wife wasn't as open with her feelings as you are with yours. I suppose some of that openness would have staved off some of the drama that ensued.

I desire polygyny, but I was really happy with one, maybe I will get another chance. Allahu Alim.

Hidden Sage said...

Men desire polygamy for various reasons and more often than not, it's multiple reasons at the same time. Physical fulfillment is obviously always going to be there for men, more for some than others. The nature of women is beauty (I'm not talking physical) and I believe that women have a way to beautify certain aspects of life. Some men try to seek that beauty women have to offer, some men seek it without knowing it.

Great post 3rd :)

new#3 said...

The power of women over men has resulted in many things from divorces to wars. I don't think there is a thing that can be done about it.

UmmAbdur-Rahmaan said...

but you are definately using your beauty and sexuality to entice men.---you got all of that out of this post???? Way to read between the lines....

Anonymous said...

ummabdurrahman, she said
"It’s a delicate balance, since you can’t make a man think you’re available, but you can make him feel at ease and happy to be around you – enough to make it easier to achieve whatever you want to achieve." Makes me think that sounds a bit manipulative, like she knows she's holding some strings.

The fact that she is a third wife makes me think that it is irrelevant if the man she's making feel "at ease and happy" to be around is married or not.

Uh, yeah.

UmmAbdur-Rahmaan said...

Wow...ok so you are really reading between the lines. i am sure she was not at all insinuating that she uses her sexuality to make a man feel at ease. So you seem to think that she set out to be somewhat of a home wreker in the sense that she is 3rd wife. She must have not given a second thought to marrying a man already married since she uses her hotness to intice a man. Maybe she thought she could get him to divorce the other wives too. (Sarcasm does not show up very well in typing, but the last 2 sentences were sarcasm.) I think you read too much into her post. I think she was trying to state that men have a tendency to be less barbaric if they know a woman is in the general vicinity. They tend to reserve themselves more, they are more careful with thier actions and more respectful. If it was a room full of men they may start yelling, even though they are professionals it could end badly but because of the presence of a woman covered or wearing a miniskirt, they were calmer and able to listen to reason instead of resorting to thier manly manness stuff. But I guess everyone reads and processes information differently.

3rd... said...

@all - to shed light on the question whether I intice men or not (the issue is a bit funny to me):

I meant to say that I am starting to understand the dynamics better. I have always been the type who tought - all are equal, one can have male best friends and female best friends. I never realized what impact women had on men. And Mr.Hubby for has been the first who tried to make me understand this - so that I would be able to keep that distance that is required - without being too closed off on the workspace... So yes, a woman can keep that delicate balance and be manipulative with men. Being friendly to exactly that point that they will do something extra, without them feeling free to make a move.
I, myself, am not skilled in this. This whole thing / realization is new to me. I found the meeting very strange. It made me realize what an impact a woman can have in the midst of men. It made me wonder how my coworker knew this and had asked me because I could bring both looks and content. It made me realize why in Japan they used geisha's for important company meetings.. it made me understand many things.

You can be Marilyn Monroe (sexy) or you can be Audrey Hepburn (style). I choose to be the Audrey Hepburn type. Stylish, decent, kind. There is no inticing going on - at all.

Anonymous said...

I've worked in a man's world all my adult life - jobs that have been mainly held by men. If you want to hold your own in their world you cannot come across as overly agressive. Your best chance of "winning" them over is to project an image of competency and confidence. You can be the ugliest woman in the world but if you know your job and do it well you'll gain their respect and in the long run the personal dynamics of your work life becomes much easier.

Business men are not going to throw thousands and thousands of dollars to a business just because of a pretty face. It might be possible that your co-worker has the type of personality/business sense that other men find competitive. When there's a "pissing contest" (your co-worker stating that the men were hostile)involved, headway will not be made. You, more than likely, were able to defuse the situation because you come across as "softer". The men were probably able to hear and judge the presentation's value because they did not feel threatened by your persona.

I do think that to a point a woman's "feminine" side is an asset. The question is do we want to succeed in a man's world because of the way we look or do we want to get our success because of our intelligence and savvy sense of business?